Freemon Sandalewould:  Regarding “Green Carrot” ……….I hate anything labeled “green”. Bunch of hipster dufaces selling nothing and they are part of the reason the USA is a failing state. Too much talky talk BS that is not founded in hard headed science.

Me:  You have a point, but what of the “hipster libertarian/objectivist dufaces” who only regurgitate orthodoxy instead of actually and scientifically looking at the empirical evidence in the cost accounting datums, then do the calculus and craft valid and aligning economic and monetary policies?

Same thread:

Me:   “Merkel …..reiterated that there would be no debt write-off.” That is no actual paradigmatic Grace, i.e. no actual possibility of systemic economic balance, equilibrium and flow and no actual human freedom.

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themacabre:   President Hollande just announced the time has come to create a real United States of Europe, with a Prime Minister, Parliament and Treasury.

Me:  That proposition is total Finance capitalist/Socialist HS, and would only institutionalize the Debt ONLY monetary and Banking paradigm instead of what is needed which is paradigmatic financial balance with monetary Gifting along with a structural balancing concept of subsidiarity which would also balance private Banking with Public Banking.

The riddle of Life and Living is consciously understood and expressed in the formula: Integrated Duality Within Trinity Which is also Unity/Wholeness

Wisdom is complete relevance and applicability

Integration is not compromise which is a mixture of truth and untruth, workability and unworkability, conducive more of conflict and stagnation than true progress. A true integration is of truth(s) only, workabilities only and is conducive of progress, expansion of data, philosophical understanding and ascension of spiritual/psychological/Self knowledge also known as consciousness. Expansion of Consciousness individually and application of Wisdom/Grace/Self Awareness/Consciousness systemically is the goal and answer.

Integrated Duality Within Trinity Which Is Unity/Wholeness

The Greek and Euro zone battle is not about the fight over individual national Debts themselves…it is the fight over the monopolistic idea/paradigm of Debt ONLY….and the only economically valid and truly effectively balancing idea to Debt ONLY….Monetary Gifting.

The intellectual and psychological/spiritual  depth, breadth and systemic economic and monetary applicability of Grace/graciousness

Yes Bob. It’s the thing all libertarians forget because of the blindness caused by orthodoxy. And a system based on the individual and their self development and economic freedom FIRST and FOREMOST is precisely what is required.

Money as an idea rather than a commodity is what? Ubiquitous (everywhere), therefore democratically abundant, thus not manipulable by an elite and if accompanied by adult and Wise balance and equilibrium, that is SYSTEMICALLY Debt is completely balanced with monetary grace/Gifting and equilibrated within and through Time by mechanisms that are economically valid and up to the job individually and systemically…then you’re talking about a system and situation that is of, for and by the individual.

Ubiquity/omnipresence, abundance, non-manipulability/freedom, adulthood/Wisdom, balance, equilibrium, interpenetration in the moment and flow through each moment of Time i.e. both being and becoming, both/andness, i.e. integration itself and Wisdom/applicability both individually and temporally in systems…..are all aspects of Grace/Wisdom/Self Awareness/Consciousness. That is the individual/psychological/systemic totality,completeness and wholeness of the matter.

And of course Public Banking as both a structurally balancing entity and as a paradigmatic balancing concept operating in the true interests of the individual in calculating and distributing the Dividend monies and Discount percentage is an intimate part of the balancing paradigm/idea of Gifting itself.

Ellen Brown:  I had a bit of an epiphany the other day as I was just waking up. When people start having transcendental experiences, realizing there is “something else”, something better that is within ourselves with no need for material possessions to acquire it, that’s when we’ll turn from this brutal competitive financialized existence to the Om state, cooperation, Grace, and goodwill.

Me:  Bravo, and congratulations on that insight! And remember that it is no coincidence that the major aspects of the concept/experience of Grace are Balance, Equilibrium, Flow and a dynamic internal sense of abundant enoughness..and the classical goals of economic theory and policy are exactly the same.

Me:  Yes Bob. It’s the thing all libertarians forget because of the blindness caused by orthodoxy. And a system based on the individual and their self development and economic freedom FIRST and FOREMOST is precisely what is required.

Money as an idea rather than a commodity is what? Ubiquitous (everywhere), therefore democratically abundant, thus not manipulable by an elite and if accompanied by adult and Wise balance and equilibrium, that is SYSTEMICALLY Debt is completely balanced with monetary grace/Gifting and equilibrated within and through Time by mechanisms that are economically valid and up to the job individually and systemically…then you’re talking about a system and situation that is of, for and by the individual.

Ubiquity/omnipresence, abundance, non-manipulability/freedom, adulthood/Wisdom, balance, equilibrium, interpenetration in the moment and flow through each moment of Time i.e. both being and becoming, both/andness, i.e. integration itself and Wisdom/applicability both individually and temporally in systems…..are all aspects of Grace/Wisdom/Self Awareness/Consciousness. That is the individual/psychological/systemic totality,completeness and wholeness of the matter.

And of course Public Banking as both a structurally balancing entity and as a paradigmatic balancing concept operating in the true interests of the individual in calculating and distributing the Dividend monies and Discount percentage is an intimate part of the balancing paradigm/idea of Gifting itself.

Me:  Paul Mason is a former Trotskyite in transition. As he says his politics are “complicated”. And that is a very good sign for him. But remember….Wisdom is integration ONLY OF THE TRUTHS AND WORKABILITIES of seemingly opposing ideas/systems…and not the inclusion of any of the untruths or un-workabilities of same….like for instance ONLY THE re-distribution of (inadequate) income as opposed to a macro-economic ADDITION to INDIVIDUAL incomes and an increase of individual purchasing power via a retail discount.

Capitalism and Socialism are dead! Long live the truly integrated evolution of both…the DISTRIBUTIVE economic theory of Social Credit in alliance with the structural and paradigmatic concept of Public Banking!!!

Bob Bowes:  I agree that in a world where technology is able to greatly reduce the labor required to produce sustainable productivity, social credit necessarily plays a role, in conjunction with an economic bill of rights, a network of public banks (without usury), verifiable voting, and decentralization of the media–as a baseline–as well as the evolution of consciousness required to subscribe to and implement these practices.

Me: An alliance/an actual integration/ and a mass social movement of Public Banking and Social Credit for all of those things and a new monetary and economic paradigm of grace/gifting…is the way forward and the way Home.

Bob Bowes:  “Debt is completely balanced with monetary grace …”

Me:  Correct. But the economy IS monetary and money is an excellent and facile tool….if balanced and transformed by Grace/graciousness.

Bob Bowes:  I find the use of the term grace in this context confusing. It also carries with it specific religious connotations that, I would suggest, are better left off the table. Instead, I use consciousness.

Me:  I do very much agree with you that tactically the word Grace needs to be used or avoided in an intelligent and marketing sense….while still all the time recognizing its philosophical/psychological/spiritual resonance (not necessarily religious) relevance and reality.

This is neither philosophical/marketing slipperiness nor lack of integrity…it is actually a true integration, i.e. a complete and inclusive integration of truths/truthfulness and bothness/Duality.

I hope everyone here remembers and notices that I often use the conceptually aligning practice of placing a slant (/) as in Wisdom/Grace/Self Awareness/Consciousness in my posts.

Graciousness as in granting of beingness to the other is also the epitome of personal Wisdom which being the internal integrative process itself is thus an expansive, inclusive and toleration building one….and so enables the inclusive integration of both religious viewpoints and non-religious ones as well. I am a complete agnostic, but I refuse to throw the baby of NATURAL psychological or Supernatural Grace (however and whichever it is considered/conceived to be) out with neither the pre-scientific religious dogmas that so often attend it…nor the modern scientistic biases that might (mistakenly) exclude or reject the natural allies of religious folk to a movement that NEEDS to be INCLUSIVE to be effective.

Me:  Upon a little reflection Monetary Gifting should be used with secular audiences, and Grace the free monetary gift when addressing religious audiences.

Bob Bowes:  I can’t say that I see guaranteed income or social credit as gifting. It’s more a right.

Me:  Slip in the word “additional” between “everyone” and “money” and you’ve got Gifting, paradigmatic balance and systemic transformation right along with reform, and Distribution instead of (the temptation to) re-distribution.

Integration is a combination, synthesis, expansion and elevation of truth(s) ONLY, not the poison pill of compromise which is the institutionalization of truth(s) and untruth(s) and hence inevitably productive of conflict, stagnation and decline.

Me in response to an article posted on Ellen’s forum about the ECB and Greek Debt:

The inherent instability and disequilibrium of modern economies due to the unbalanced monopolistic paradigm of Debt ONLY still remains, and by that definition results in an absence of monetary grace/Gifting. The entire ECB process and thinking is palliative “can kicking”/bailing out of an inevitably sinking ship. Steve Keen has correctly and astutely recognized the disequilibrated nature of modern economies. Being a nascent, awakening Social Crediter he has not yet cognited on the only valid macro-economic and monetary policy mechanisms that are up to the task of actually resolving the Debt ONLY paradigm.

The ECB will probably string this all out until all debt is made sovereign thus pushing it off onto the populace…instead of simply writing it off. That is the anti-thesis of Grace.

The road to peace is the integration of pacifism and technologically advanced military power…both of which (pacifism and power) are aspects of the concept of Grace. And the key to making peace permanent is the integration of the learning of Wisdom and abundance for everyone. That is why enabling profit making systems to evolve past capitalism and socialism, both of which are primarily concerned with power and control much more so than even profit, and toward the human, liberating and profit making Distributist economic system of Social Credit.

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Finance pulls all the strings and levers behind the scene. Until we play on the new paradigm/field of monetary Gifting we’ll always be the visiting team. Ideas/paradigms are a priori and the most powerful force in the world. You can only truly change the world with a new and/or actually different/non-orthodox idea.

Me:  The path to peace begins with the very first step.

themacabre:   Famous last words by Neville Chamberlain. Didn’t work out too well for him.

Me:  Suing for peace is always the correct and ethical thing to do whether the short view of  history is considered or not.  I have no qualms with having an adequate and technologically superior defense, but the long view of history shows war is the stupidest, most economically destructive, most unethical, most trumped up and easily declared event and activity that Man has ever engaged in.

Do you understand what I am saying?

Me:  Capitalism and socialism alike are systems which encourage and elicit pols primarily concerned with power and control. Wed that to an hypnotic monetary paradigm of Debt ONLY and we will all remain slaves to an elite forever…unless we awaken to the necessity of balancing Finance’s monopoly on the creation of credit with an additional paradigm of Gifting in the area of consumer finance. This the next evolutionary step for profit making systems. Even if you do not want to confront the empirical evidence and calculus of the Social Credit insight that the rate of flow of total costs always tends to exceed the rate of flow of individual incomes simultaneously produced and actually available to liquidate those costs/prices…the increasingly disruptive monetary and economic effects of innovation and artificial intelligence are going to make the policies of Social Credit necessary to keep the economy functional.

You’re all nascent Social Crediters.

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Me: It’s so nice to always get the last word in, not only because you are right, but much more importantly…because your solution is an actual solution based much more so than any other economic theory on the observation of the empirical evidence, the use of calculus on that data and the observation of the entirety of the costing/pricing/productive system instead of only the upper bound result of it…rather than coming up with a palliative, half measure and/or mere regurgitation of already invalidated or incomplete orthodoxy. In other words actually looking at ALL of the evidence, ALL of the productive process macro-economically and at the DEEPEST, MOST SIGNIFICANT, CONTINUOUS AND HENCE DYNAMIC levels of the micro-economy namely cost and price, then doing the calculus on what is decipherable with the data and finally integrating valid monetary and economic policies that deal with ALL of the ramifications of ALL of the problems.

Virtually all economists are nascent Social Crediters.

Technology-Abundance and Ecology-Mental Balance of Enoughness….they are both logically consistent aspects and integrations of Grace.

The powers that be will have to be dealt with…because they control both the temporal universe playing field and the current paradigmatic fieled of play as well.

We must make known to, and show at least 10% of the populace that:

1) Ideas are a priori to the temporal universe of action and process
2) That the power of ideas/paradigms in men’s minds are more powerful, much more powerful than any army or powerful elite’s “control” and
3) That Wisdom, that is REAL Wisdom, not just the conventional wisdom of opinion/orthodoxy/the current paradigm…is by definition equally as effective and applicable to the temporal universe as it is to the minds of Men.

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In order for a new idea to be perceived and actualized/made more real it has to actually be understood and/or experienced. Until the experience occurs within one’s self it is hard to conceive, have much actual reality and hence be something one (whether they be reformer, academic or any individual who has an ego involvement with how others will perceive him and his opinions) is willing to be “sold out to”. Nevertheless, if it is understood that an idea, for instance Grace, is both the correct systemic solution and the best policy and goal of self development…people can embrace it with much more swiftness and vigor.

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For instance, Steve Keen has re-discovered nearly every theoretical thing
C. H. Douglas observed 90+ years ago, and as I have many times said considering the mountain of orthodoxy and suave intellectual presentation with which it has been broadcast for so long his re-discovery is a tremendous accomplishment itself, and he has even suggested a modern debt jubilee which is perfectly reflective of the concept of Grace as in forgiveness/cancellation of debt which is at the heart of Social Credit. In fact Keen has also recently stated that a new philosophy and paradigm is necessary for economics. You see even the best and brightest economist on the planet, despite re-discovering Social Credit theoretical realities, suggesting actions that agree with it and advocating a new philosophy that if logically aligned with what he has so far re-discovered ought to lead him to the same conclusions as Douglas…is still struggling with cogniting on the exact policies that are economically valid and consistent…with what he has already and so far re-discovered. Keen is truly a nascent Social Crediter. And that is no insult, it simply follows from the above presented facts.

Consciousness raising is difficult no matter how smart you are. It requires an open mind that has been studiously cleared of cultural, familial, personal and circumstantial/experiential blocks and many times also has a large component of luck involved in attaining it….and yet strangely enough as the sages of the world’s wisdom traditions have repeatedly said and demonstrated insight can occur at anytime. It’s a funny world, and a beautiful and blessed one….if one trusts and contemplates Wisdom.

Yes Jim. Looking at it as the Distributist theory of Social Credit being the third alternative to both capitalism and socialism is both a more precise distinction and also a more reflective reminder of the reality of Trinitarianism as well. Considering that the Canadian Catholic order of St. Michael is an advocate of Social Credit and the Trinity being an established belief of the church, why they don’t come out and advocate Social Credit as the official policy of the church…is curious to me. As you say it is probably the intellectual and cultural contagion of socialist thinking. I would say that Social Credit is indeed a socialization of the money system…but without the mistaken re-distributive aspects of socialism. Social Credit is an integration…only of truths and none of the fallacies of economic theory.

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So Social Credit is fait accompli the policy of the church. I’ll settle for that. And I was happy to be educated about the (in my opinion mistaken) viewpoints of Belloc and Chesterton regarding Social Credit. These were probably the most intelligent men of their generations, but culture and change can obscure even the brightest of minds. I believe it was Oliver who sent me that blog post from socred.org. Much appreciated as always. I would say that capitalism is actually far more concerned with power and control than even profit and hence even reformed is beyond the pale. Wally once posted to something I wrote that current economic theory was consistent only with the will to power and that Social Credit’s policy was instead the will to individual freedom. Its so nice to learn true distinctions.