Me: If the democrats want to win in the next election they’re going to have to come up with a set of innovative economic policies that everyone can benefit from and that is easy to understand. One such policy would be a 50% Discount/Rebate at retail sale where every merchant agrees to discount their prices by 50% and then the government or the central bank creates the monies (not debt) and rebates every cent of that discount back to the merchant granting it to the consumer. Voila! An economic and monetary paradigm change where everyone can get $100 worth of groceries for $50, a $60k Ev ends up only being $15k (50% off at retail = $30k and then because the retail point of a loan is your payment that amount is reduced by 50% so your payment is the equivalent of a loan for $15k) Also, a $500k house is ultimately reduced to a payment equivalent of only $125k. Ignore the orthodox on all sides and the cynical naysayers just keep broadcasting the benefits to the masses and its “an idea whose time has come”.
WF: It is more than economics, a lot more. Trump’s base, which appears to be a steady 40%, well maybe 37%, is the culture war. The non MAGA bystanders, who didn’t vote, or voted for Trump are motivated by other issues, including Israel/Palestine, and male grievance.
And by the way, a correction to your statement “the government or the central bank creates the monies (not debt) and rebates every cent of that discount back to the merchant granting it to the consumer” Is incorrect in more ways than one.
The Fractional Reserve System, which the Fed (our Central Bank) controls, enables financial institutions, which includes insurance companies, to create money out of debt.
There is a simple equation, no debt = no money. And if you don’t believe me look into the horses mouth: Modern Money Mechanics by the https://archive.org/details/modern-money-mechanics
And as the debt is paid off, that portion of the principal is wiped off the books, IOW the money so created goes out of existence,
Everytime you swipe your credit card, buy a car, mortgage a home,you are creating money,.
What is not zero’d out and what causes long term inflation is the interest on the debt, because when you incur the debt, the money needed to pay the interest is not created, and the result, globally, is that producers are forced to raise prices and/or reduce quality and quantity.
Me: I’m sorry but you’re not seeing what I’m saying…which is that this policy implements a NEW monetary paradigm for the creation and distribution of all new money. The current paradigm is Debt ONLY, that is its a monopoly paradigm where the creation and distribution of all new money is created ONLY as Debt, and the new monetary paradigm integrated into the Debt ONLY system is Monetary Gifting. New paradigms always destroy orthodoxies, in this case it destroys The Quantity Theory of Money because it increases the money supply and yet it implements beneficial DEFLATION…the heads of the orthodox explode.
Me: The theory of fractional reserve banking is a myth and has been invalidated by the economist Steve Keen who has shown that it requires all new loans to be IN CASH instead of credit and credit as in Debt Only which is actually the case. The new monetary paradigm of Gifting strategically integrated into the economy at retail sale breaks up the debt only monopolistic paradigm and results in the benefits I described in my first post.
WF: I am not seeing anything. I am simply explaining Modern Money Mechanics, Your argument isn’t with me, It is with Fractional Reserve Banking. I gave you a link to the publication from the Fed. I’ve done my part.
To increase the quantity of money, requires an increase in debt, public, corporate and private. Public means Governmen Securities, private includes credit cards.
An increase in debt leads to an increase in the money supply,and thus an increase in the price of goods sold.
That is not “seeing anything” i is not opinion, it is scientific fact.
Financial institutions hate inflation, and love deflation. Inflation means that one can pay off debts with cheap money, deflation means that they can confiscate property, used as collateral, and sell it later and make more profit.
During the German Hyperinflation of 1922, workers would collect their pay for the day, or the hour, and rush out to pay off mortgages.
The German hyperinflation increased the money supply, hourly.
Me: The theory of fractional reserve banking is a myth and has been invalidated by the economist Steve Keen who has shown that it requires all new loans to be IN CASH instead of credit and credit as in Debt Only which is actually the case. The new monetary paradigm of Gifting strategically integrated into the economy at retail sale breaks up the debt only monopolistic paradigm and results in the benefits I described in my first post. Getting $100 worth of groceries for $50, a $60k EV for $15k and a $500k house for $125k is “a funny kind of inflation wouldn’t you say?
WF: Fractional reserve banking is as much a theory as gravity.
That is how the system is set up, and in fact it is how banking has worked since the advent of banking and the ability of a bank to print it’s own notes.
Of course loans are paid off in cash. Your statement ” that it requires all new loans to be IN CASH instead of credit and credit as in Debt Only” makes no sense, but I am sure that there are those that borrow money to pay the interest on the debt, like the U.S.
Why would anyone borrow money (at a higher interest rate) to pay off a loan at a lower interest rate.
I refinanced my home, before I paid off the mortgage, because I got a lower interest rate.
Your first post is gobblydoo gook. Makes absolutely no sense.
Me: Again, you’re not looking at the actions of the policy. Retail merchants would register/create an account with The FED or the government and agree to reduce their prices by 50%. Then when they confirmed the reipts of the sales and discounts to the monetary authority it would rebate the entire amount of daily discounts BACK TO THE MERCHANT so that they would be made whole on their FULL price. Why would the merchant like this? Because it would double the potential demand for every one of their goods and services IOW its in their self interest to participate in the policy. And of course its in the self interest of every consumer to receive a gift of 50% of the price of everything.
This is simple accounting practice where equal debits and credits sum to zero which is the actual way that new money is already created by the banks and the government AS DEBT ONLY. The difference here is this money is created AS A GIFT…and because it is distributed at the point of retail sale which among other things is the point of terminal calculation of inflation…it transforms chronic erosive inflation into beneficial price and asset DEFLATION. Again, the heads of the orthodox explode.
WF: This comment Steve is nonsense, devoid of reality. Where the fuck are you going to get $100 worth of groceries for $50, or a $60K EV for 15k.
Well the EV is probably a used car, or an unsold Tesla Cybertruck or Model S. But you ain’t a goin to buy a $500k house for $125K, unless there is a severe depression and then even not. Banks will hold on to properties they acquire through repossession and sell them later and reap a huge profit, not to mention the profit of interest on the loan.
Me: Sorry, all irrelevant objections to the policy actions and its real world effects.
WF: You still make no sense, but here comes an ad hominem, you come off as obsessively deranged.
Me: It made no sense to advocate for helio-centrism when geo-centrism was the orthodoxy…but eventually the advocates of the latter had to face the truth. An identity change is sometimes discomforting, but it doesn’t kill you.
WF: And that analogy is relevant, how?
Me: Your unwillingness to consider that accounting is the way banks create new money instead of fractional reserve banking. Which means that using that same accounting method could create new money as either debt or as a gift…which of course enables the benefits I have described here.
WF: There is one thing that proliferates on the internet and that is people with big ideas that have all the answers and believe that they are the savior. I’ve seen my share, and more than enough of them, like you, post here on Reich’s page hoping to snare some meat for their own little cult.
No thank you
Me: Fine, but if the simple policy I advocate is ever implemented I’ll bet you won’t refuse the 100% increase in purchasing power it will give you. You might be hanging on to a false orthodoxy, but I’m confident you won’t be that stupid.
And by the way long distance internet psychoanalysis of others is a very VERY inaccurate “science”.
WF: Yeh, just what we need another person with a savior complex and the solution to the world;s problems.
Millions have tried, millions have failed. The reason, the many facets of human mentality and behavior
Me: Cynicism and invalidation are always rife before new paradigms are recognized as the solution to anomalous present ones. Consult history on that. Add to that the fact that we are long into the anomalous monopolistic paradigm for intellectual inquiry, namely Science Only, when the superlative intellectual impulse and discipline has ALWAYS been Wisdom which is the third way toward the resolution of seemingly unresolvable opposites. As I like to say: “Science is wonderful, necessary and delicious…and it exists entirely as a set within the digestive tract of Wisdom.”
Your last statement is an example of the modern intellectual disease of cynicism which is mental stopping before one even starts to do something. As the Japanese military strategist Sun Tsu said: “If you can convince the enemy (in this case those who hear about a new paradigm) that there is no reason to fight…you will win every war without a single battle.
WF: So you are a paradigm buster Steve. Pretty grandiose I would say. You validate my assessment.
Me: Accounting is probably the most temporal universe reality anchoring discipline man has ever created, and creating and distributing monetary gifts with accounting at the universally participated in temporal universe point of retail sale gets rid of the monopoly paradigm for money creation and distribution and implements the benefits I’ve described and you still have not looked at apparently. Please keep trying.
I realized the new paradigm and how to implement it by study, a lot of lucky insights from others and keeping an open mind. You don’t know me. I’m sure you’re an otherwise decent person who is just holding onto an orthodoxy that is no longer true. Try to open your mind to a new APPLIED idea. It won’t kill you.
WF: Word salad Steve, totally incomprehensible. Maybe I should humor you, my good deed for the week
You are just another salesman, hawking wares, by trolling a popular and highly read substack. You are one of many, and I mean many. So many saviors, so little time.
Me: Accounting is the way banks and governments create money. They create it ONLY AS DEBT. The word ONLY designates it as a monopoly. Using accounting to create and distribute monetary gifts breaks up that monopoly and creates the benefits I described. Even you, a non-looker, can follow that simple logical process and see its effects …if they actually look at it.
WF: You got one thing right, money is created our of debt, but it isn’t accounting that does it, accounting only records the transaction. Money is distributed by people (whose debt has created it) as they see fit, and by government to pay it’s bills.So your theory is nonsense. And WTF is a non looker,.
FYI I have a Masters in Finance and Accounting, and I studied the Fed, and Central Banks, including the GosBank (The USSR and the Bank of Israel)
And the alternatives to fractional reserve banking are unworkable and undesireable. Gold/silver, printing press money and now crypto, the biggest scam of all, created by guys in their underwear sitting at a keyboard.
Me: “FYI I have a Masters in Finance and Accounting, and I studied the Fed, and Central Banks, including the GosBank (The USSR and the Bank of Israel)”
Thats probably one of the reasons you’re not looking at what I post. Institutional education is mostly a process of acculturating present orthodoxies not innovative observation. And accountants know where every debit and credit goes, but they don’t do conceptual/paradigmatic analysis and so they miss the realities, good and bad, that paradigms create and enforce.
Your last paragraph is completely accurate except for printing press/fiat money creation and fractional reserve banking.
WF: No Steve, my education is what informs me that you are a misbegotten would be savior, and full of it.
Fiat actually means faith. It refers to printing press money. Federal Reserve Money is limited by debt. The government can’t print it as it please and use it to pay its bills.
It does print government securities and sells them to the Association of Primary Dealer in Government Securities (Google it), when then sells them to the Fed, which uses them as it’s reserve base for creating money out of debt, and also sells them to sovereign funds, institutions, and other central banks, which use them as their reserve base.
All of that in the pdf I linked to which you won’t read, because you think you know it all.
Me: I don’t dispute the present creation process you describe…only that money is created ONLY AS DEBT…which makes it a monopoly paradigm that is at the root of our monetary and economic problems. And all you have to do is amend the FED’s charter to create the monies, NOT DEBT, to fulfill the rebate aspect of the 50% Discount/Rebate policy.
So you’re wrong, I know exacty where you’re coming from. ITS YOU WHO REFUSES TO SEE THAT UTILIZING THE SAME ACCOUNTING OPERATIONS COULD CREATE AND DISTRIBUTE THE MONIES FOR THE REBATE ASPECT OF THE 50% POLICY AT RETAIL SALE WHICH IN TURN WOULD IMPLEMENT THE BENEFITS I’VE DESCRIBED.
THERE’S ACTUALLY HISTORY HERE AS LINCOLN DISTRIBUTED NON-DEBT GREENBACKS WHICH HAD VERY BENEFICIAL EFFECTS LIKE WINNING THE CIVIL WAR, BUT BECAUSE HE DIDN’T HAVE THE DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE TODAY AND THE GREENBACKS WEREN’T DISTRIBUTED AT RETAIL SALE WHICH IS THE TERMINAL EXPRESSION POINT OF INFLATION AND HENCE IT DIDN’T MATHEMATICALLY ELIMINATE INFLATION LIKE THE 50% DISCOUNT/REBATE POLICY.
So whats your next irrelevant and orthodox non-rebuttal to what I’m saying???
WF: I don’t discuss with a fool who types in all caps, that means you have no argument, except to scream.
Oh, Lincoln financed the war by selling bonds, and after the war the bond holders, especially in London, wanted repayment in Gold. He refused, he was assassinated, His Vice President, Seymour Johnson also refused to pay the debt in specie.
In the election of 1868, The World, a NY based neswpaper owned and controlled by August Belmont(of the , withdrew support for the conservative candidate, Horatio Seymour, because his party would not endorse redemption of American War Bonds in Gold. A European banking syndicate(Rothschild / Baring) owned a large amount of these bonds and the bonds, by terms of issue(act of Feb 25,1862) were payable in greenbacks ‘this treachery threw the election to Grant.”
The first act of his administration was to pass legislation (The Credit Strengthening Act of Mar 18, 1869) which redeemed the bonds in coin, bonds which were originally sold at half prices because of their irredeemably in coin (gold). If these measures are not adequate then there are always, of course extreme measures available.
Note: Lincoln’s life was threatened from the front page of the London Times by Banking and Trading interests because he would not redeem Greenbacks (true fiat money) for gold.
So you don’t like the system as is.
What is your solution? Crypto?
Oh by the way, bankers hate inflation, it enables the common man to pay off debts with cheap money. during the German hyper inflation of 1922, a worker would get their paycheck and rush to the bank to pay off their mortgage with one days or hours work.
Whats to love with deflation? With deflation they can repossess real property, then hold on to it until the economy recovers and then sell it at great profit, also profiting from the loans.
The big banks made out like bandits during the banking crisis of 2008, they repossessed property, held it for resale later, and received a bail out from the government. on top of that.
Me: Google search: Did Lincoln sell bonds to English banks to create Greenbacks?
No, Lincoln did not directly sell bonds to English banks to create greenbacks (United States Notes).
Here’s a breakdown:
Greenbacks were created through the Legal Tender Act of 1862: This act authorized the US Treasury to issue $150 million in United States Notes (greenbacks), which were not backed by gold or silver but declared legal tender for most debts.
Bonds were sold to various investors: While the government sold bonds to help finance the Civil War, they were sold to a range of investors, including American citizens and some foreign investors, but there’s no specific indication that they were exclusively sold to English banks.
The purpose of bonds was to raise funds for the war, not specifically to back greenbacks: The bonds were a separate tool used to generate revenue alongside the issuance of greenbacks, taxes, and other measures.
Greenbacks could be reissued after bond sales: Notably, the Treasury was allowed to reissue United States Notes that it received from bond sales, further increasing the money supply.
In summary, the issuance of greenbacks was a direct action by the US government through the Legal Tender Act, not a result of bond sales to specific foreign banks.
Your list of crimes and assasinations only highlights why changing the monetary paradigm is so important. Crypto is a scam and not a currency and its not a secure way of dealing with the present anomalous monetary paradigm…like a 50% Discount/Rebate at retail sale is.
As for hyperinflations the hyperness of them in the Weimar republic one wasn’t really initiated until after private banking leveraged up and shorted the currency. Zimbabwe’s case was just stupidity on top of continued stupidity and could have been largely if not completely avoided with the policies I suggest.
There is no deflation of ultimate price with the 50% Discount/Rebate because everyone gets their full price with the rebate aspect of the policy. The consumer DOES benefit via the deflationary result of the discount and the policy increases demand and market size for the commercial agents.
You can ignore it, but you can’t get around the fact that using equal debits and credits to lower the price at retail sale creates beneficial deflation for virtually all economic agents. So please try looking at that temporal universe problem resolving action.
WF: Did I say that Lincoln sold Bonds to Britiish Banks? No I did not. Lincoln sold bonds to finance the civil war, and they were bought by British investors namely the investment bankers Rothschild and Baring.
I’ve had it with you. I’ve been a fool engaging.
Me: My last post acknowledges that additional bonds were sold. My point over all though was to point out that simply creating money as money and not debt was what really enabled the North to win the civil war, and that doing so with the Discount/Rebate at retail sale also does have the temporal universe ability to transform erosive inflation into beneficial deflation. But you can go on not looking at that fact as long as you so desire.
Learning something new is frustrating only to those who will not open their minds to new demonstrated facts. Adios, and I might post additional policies here that soldify the beneficial effects of the new monetary paradigm. Looking forward to you not cluttering the thread with off the mark critiques.
WF: You have nothing to contribute. I am more than familiar with your type.
You read a book, became a missionary, and with the assistance of google AI think they have become a savior, of only people will listen to you, and if they don’t jump on your bandwagon, then they are dolts.
As I said my mistake was engaging with you. While your misbegotten screed is the result of reading a book and google.
My sources are a two year research, scouring the reference libraries and attics of two universities and receiving documents from five central banks and a study of the marketing and banking system of the USSR.
You have nothing to add, and I certainly don’t see you as a savior, and as regards myself, I have nothing to sell and I am not a customer for the crap you are trying to sell.
Me: Authorities and their orthodoxies are the first victims of new paradigms. :). I thought you weren’t going to reply to me anymore. Please try to keep your word.
https://www.amazon.com/Wisdomics-Gracenomics-New-Monetary-Paradigm-Policies-ebook/dp/B0C49B9PX7/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1552358772&sr=1-1-catcorr
Social Credit/Wisdomics/Gracenomics/ Gracientialism 