Yes, I’m glad this thread has arisen as well because it finally can be shown that, contrary to world2steven’s well meaning but mistaken assumptions about Social Credit’s/Wisdomics/Gracenomics’ failings, it can be shown that its policies combined with the digital nature of the money system and the evolutionary concept of monetary Grace/Gifting….are exactly what are required to bring an end to Soddy’s complaints as well as the dominance and profligacy of Finance.

First of all Douglas was aware of and in large agreement with Veblen, and his use of the term “economic sabotage” was all over his and others’ writings about Social Credit. Sabotage is a subtle but huge aspect of the Gap that awakened economists will increasingly become aware of and actually be able to eliminate….once the concept of monetary Gifting is properly implemented into the economy. For instance if Gifting within the digital nature of the money system is increasingly utilized to grant humanity economic security then taxation for the purposes of re-distributing money to those who do not have it and for governmental services and even for infrastructure….then become completely redundant and can be eliminated for both the individual and for businesses.

Secondly, tying a REBATED Discount mechanism to the exact ending point of the economic/productive process enables us to reduce prices, increase purchasing power and hence utterly link the correct, an exact and with Wisdomics/Gracenomics’ deflationary Discount policies not only eliminate the specter of inflation BUT ENABLES A DECREASING NOMINAL AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR THE PURCHASE OF GOODS AND SERVICES. Thus both Soddy’s and everyone else’s inflation fears are eliminated,  and again the vector of the economy is toward less and less Finance necessary. So instead of the State “withering away” the demon of Finance, which is the major reason for its corruption, is de-throned, de-toothed and downsized. And of course if policies continue to be aligned with Grace/Gifting people will become increasingly aware of the ethically transformative and freeing aspect of such a concept as well.

Reciprocal monetary Gifting (to the consumer and back to the merchant) ingeniously utilizes the digital nature of the money system to control and economize Finance.

*********************************************

He talks about some of the things I have been saying for 10 years, and yet he’s still caught up in the old paradigm of Debt enough not to see that a thorough and complete integration of monetary Grace/Gifting into the Debt based system will resolve and stabilize the economy through Time.

Retail sale is the perfect place to implement macro-economic policy because every business has a retail customer/product. Even wholesalers whose products and services are their retail product/service….to other wholesalers or retailers. It’s the perfect place to implement policy that can increasingly free both businesses and individuals. Keen has probably never been enough of a “hands on” businessman to consciously perceive the costing/pricing system/the actual costs of business and how it rules the micro-economy, or to perceive the significance of the fact of the terminal end of the productive process at retail sale. Hence they worry too much about the “dangers”/”difficulties” of helicopter money. With a digital (+,-) money system the answer to a scarcity ratio of individual incomes to costs/prices and to inflation Gifting (a universal Dividend) and reciprocal Gifting (a deflationary Discount).

A:  A demand, after all, is something that can be refused. The whole point of money is that it has to be taken in payment.

Me:  “A demand, after all, is something that can be refused. The whole point of money is that it has to be taken in payment.”

Correct. And that is the problem with complementary currencies and a priori decentralized attempts to resolve the monetary problem. But if you utilize the power of legal tender integrated with policies that actually effect individual freedom and systemic free flowingness….why make a logical result more difficult than it has to be or miss/alter the point that A = A, i.e. freedom is freedom.

Finally, as it frees both the individual and businesses from the tyranny of Finance, it is imminently palatable and marketable to both.

Me:  “Much of modern development would have been impossible without someone creating money,…”

“In other words, the modern financial system may be corrupt and evil, but the system is immensely valuable too.  It needs reform, not discarding.”

Correct on both accounts. And that is why we must integrate monetary Grace/Gifting into the debt based system. An integration is always a combination of only the true, workable and applicable aspects of two aparently different systems…otherwise it wouldn’t be Wisdom/an integration, it would be an idiot compromise of sorts that actually thwarts and prevents an integration and the actual resolution of problems.

Another example of an actual integration is of Grace/Gifting into the extremely valuable system of cost accounting/double entry bookkeeping. Gifting corrects the flaw there in the convention that all costs must go into price despite the fact that as the economy became more and more capital intensive and so costly it became less and less workable and stable do to the additional costs.

Integration evolves, and deep enough and/or continuous integrations transform.

Bob: