Socialism is a reaction to capitalism…not an integration of the two. Profit is not the problem, the problem is excess costs in ratio to individual incomes simultaneously created. An integration of capitalism and socialism includes and evolves them both so as to create a third distinct entity/theory of Distributism where a nature and abundance reflecting profit making system is integrated with the perfectly correct intention of socialism which is economic democracy. This is done by integrating monetary grace/gifting into the economic and monetary systems via a universal dividend and price deflationary discount. These Dual mechanisms would immediately resolve the Dual most persistent problems of advanced economies a chronic scarcity of individual incomes and systemic inflation….instead of taking 150+ years of reform and reaction to each other which has plunked us down into what?….mountains of Debt everywhere the eye turns, austerity and poverty amidst plentiful capability to produce and a general systemic and individual funk of cynicism, hopelessness, apathy and blindness….because we don’t START with ideas/paradigms/philosophy and then proceed from there with aligned and reflective policies that would IMMEDIATELY and actually effect more of the a priori philosophical intention in the temporal universe…than 150+ years of either capitalism or socialism even ever dreamed of creating.

If philosophy/ideas/natural metaphysics is bunk to anyone…then they should bow their heads in apathy and despair and let the resulting conflict ridden and reactionary way of force take its course. Those who know the power of ideas/paradigms and the integrative process that is human wisdom will I suppose have to bring them along kicking and screaming.

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Bob:  From what I have gleaned from the discussions of Social Credit, which seem to flood most of the threads in our list-serve, it is a system that argues for change within the capitalist milieu, so, yes, it is not compatible with socialism, since socialism should, theoretically, support money as a public utility. But as a I said, real monetary reform is about sovereignty.

Me:  Sovereignty is about power. Historically, both capitalism and socialism have proven to be about power, that is true. The real question is are we going to continue on obsessing about, reacting to and utilizing power only,….or try the integrative process of human wisdom instead…after which of course power and control will still be around, but if a philosophy of grace/gifting and its aligned policies are implemented perhaps the world’s peoples, freed from the coercive necessity to be employed when employment is neither forthcoming nor an actual solution to the deepest problems of the economy…might say “go to hell” to the pols and anyone else who tries to destroy such system???

Me:   If Keynesianism didn’t stabilize and solve the problem the last time around when America was the only nation left with its productive capacity intact after WW II…how is it going to be up to the job now when the underlying problem of cost inflation still exists and erodes profits and purchasing power, and innovation and AI are only getting started with their disruptive downward effects on individual incomes as well? We’re way behind the curve with such retread of old orthodoxy. As I have said I’m certainly not against infrastructure renewal, but let’s not fool ourselves into thinking palliatives are solutions. That’s not realism. We require a new vision, a more integrated and unifying vision and more accurately targeted policies that SOLVE the actual problems we face.

I’m sorry, but “quite aside from socred” is palliation and reasonableness in the face an unethical system that has been palliated way too long already. We don’t have the time to dilly dally.

Why not visualize monetary grace/gifting and its aligned, concrete and implementable policies along with Public Banking….and begin a mass movement that will truly resonate with both the individual and the vast majority of the business community….and solve the problem???

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Me:  Have no problem with money for infrastructure, especially if it is of the MMT type non-interest bearing and “just sitting there, not ever being paid back” type of non-debt…debt. After all MMT is Social Credit/monetary gifting for the government. But let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that resolves all of our monetary and economic problems, and “non-debt, debt”? Funny how hard it is to get one’s mind unconditioned/de-programmed from the paradigm, the very idea of Debt ITSELF.

The best part of the video was when he mentioned that 50% of the costs of Debts as in Loans was interest costs, most of which is paid toward the front end of the loan. That’s a lot of extra costs to repay…on top of original financing. And what about the other costs tacked onto that like the costs of replacing capital equipment and facilities in an ongoing fashion? What about profit-savings-rent as extractions from the circular flow? Or re-investment of these? Waste? Tidy, very tidy sum there. But forget about all of those other costs, what if every month retailers discounted their prices to consumers….just for the 50% of the interest cost of every item???

That would be Social Credit/Gifting….for the individual. And then we could proceed together into the satisfyingly abundant, leisurely free, self determined, hopeful, rational and self actualizing future that technology and AI are trying to give us….if economists would ever get their heads out of the paradigm of Debt ONLY.