Me: Yes, I’m all for muckraking and expose’s but ultimately what we really and truly need is alternative solutions, and that means actual solutions not palliatives, not compromises and not denials of the unethical nature of a paradigm unbalanced. Ideas are more powerful than structures, and paradigms because they are general in nature are the most powerful ideas, hence you need an idea that qualifies as a paradigm to balance the current Debt ONLY paradigm of Finance. Enforced debt is tyrannical and enslaving….and the major individual aspect of Grace is freedom
[(Debt X Monetary Grace/Gifting) X Econ & Mon. Balance, Equilibrium & Flow ]
An integrated Duality Within a Trinitarian Concept which is also a Unity…
a conscious way of describing, deciphering, understanding and applying Wisdom in the midst of any given situation in Life and Living.
Ann: Agreed. However, as I’ve quoted a paper on the influence of “power,” for many people, the negative situation we find ourselves in, “the cycle,” can only be broken IF the ILLEGITIMACY is revealed. Otherwise, such utopia sounds like pie-in-the-sky to most folks.
Me: Well yes, but I’ve already agreed that tyranny needs to be exposed. Part of the problem is seeing actual as in complete solutions as utopian…when they are simply solutions and solutions that if applied systemically will result not in some enforced incomplete and abstract model like socialism or capitalism but in actual individual economic freedom and security….which will enable the vast majority of individuals…to create their own utopia.
oregonstu: Applied systematically how, Steve? Our political systems are utterly owned by those who have an incredibly powerful vested interest in not applying these kinds of solutions, right? As in, they will stop at nothing – including genocide – to prevent it?
Me: Well, despite that fact inaction is not a solution…and neither is cynicism for that matter. I have been suggesting on this forum that an integration of Public Banking both as a structural component and an elevated central banking concept AND Social Credit would make for the kind of resonant mass movement necessary to awaken an alliance of individuals and the vast majority of businesses….the better to wrest power from the conscious and unconscious elites that are enforcing the current crisis until it blows up in EVERYONE’S faces. So maybe we should all get together, no?
Steven Lesh: The problem is much bigger than just money whether we are talking public
banking, social credit or both. Let’s assume QE for WESTERN Main Street
economies actually happens. Since much of the wealth the West actually
consumes is produced in China and other ‘developing’ nations, what do
you propose to do if the people who actually produce the wealth say “We
don’t want your worthless money. We want to consume the wealth we
produce OURSELVES!”
banking, social credit or both. Let’s assume QE for WESTERN Main Street
economies actually happens. Since much of the wealth the West actually
consumes is produced in China and other ‘developing’ nations, what do
you propose to do if the people who actually produce the wealth say “We
don’t want your worthless money. We want to consume the wealth we
produce OURSELVES!”
Me: You rapidly re-industrialize here and anywhere else you implemented Social Credit and Public Banking because you’d have dividend and discount mechanisms to enable a smooth and prosperous transition to a truly abundant modern economic system. You see what Soddy missed was humans don’t ACTUALLY create the vast majority of human bodily necessities any more (nor even most of the other things of a modern economy for that matter) …..increasingly and acceleratingly technology and robotics do. In fact that would be the best thing to happen to the Chinese as well as that would take away their biggest market…forcing them to transition to a non-absurd and non-enslaving internal economic democracy as well.
Steven Lesh: “…when you sink into a swamp of accounting gibberish – of compensated retail discounts, gaps, etc – you just muddy the waters.” Etc. etc.
Me: What you call “a swamp of accounting gibberish’ is actually the essence of science, i.e. actually looking at the processes that take place every day by and within ALL businesses…including the monopolies and oligopolies you mistakenly think invalidate Douglas’s temporal universe observations. You think monopoly pricing is not cost plus? Do you think monopolies actually pay out as much in INDIVIDUAL incomes as they do in total costs? Think again. Have you bothered to do the calculus of the dynamic flow of the empirical costs found in every business, monopoly or otherwise, and then considered the monetary and economic consequences thereof? Apparently you actually haven’t. Orthodoxy blinds and inhibits actual looking.
As for Hudson and others, how many times have I said that some of their observations are valid, emphasis some, but those observations unfortunately do not include the deepest, and because it is such an inherent “woof and warp” aspect of commerce itself the most overlooked and missed problem of the disequilibrium caused by the scarcity of individual incomes (i.e. labor costs) in ratio to total costs…..in every business. It’s a lot like how people miss the significance of consciousness itself…in no small part because it is so omnipresent and unavoidable for humans. When you don’t violate the first and most important rule of GOOD science, looking at empirical evidence….the real problems begin to clarify themselves so that policy can be crafted…to rectify them.
Steven Lesh: “Douglas and Social Credit seems to pretty much ignore the world of finance, i.e. the role of the casino economy in bringing the real Main Street economy to its knees.”
Me: Not a correct assessment or understanding of my/Social Credit’s analysis. In the first place Douglas was probably the first person to understand the endogenous creation of money…Hudson and Keen are merely RE-discovering it now. In the second place theories fall most often on what they do not include. Social Credit includes the insights of Keen, Hudson etc. by virtue of the fact that Social Credit’s analysis is the deepest, most complete integration of the truths of all of these analyses, both abstract and concrete/statistical….and Keen’s and Hudson’s analyses do not include the dynamic nature of the latter…so the actual truth is THEIR analyses…are the incomplete ones. As I have posted here before every one of Keen’s iconoclastic de-bunkings of DSGE/neo-liberal theory are RE-discoveries of what Douglas said 90+ years ago. The “relevance of money, Debt and Banks” as Keen refers to continually in his videos…are exactly what Douglas advocated. Even Keen’s and Hudson’s advocacy of “a modern debt jubilee” is a perfect reflection of an aspect of the bedrock concept underlying Social Credit…Grace as in cancellation/freedom from Debt. They’re both nascent Social Crediters.
Again, their analysis only looks at the upper bound of price determined by monetary inflation and the natural/human upward tendency of prices in profit making systems, but they completely ignore the dynamic and continual upward effects of costs and hence prices caused by costs always exceeding individual incomes on the lower bound. There is continual upward pressure from both ends of the productive process. Keen mentioned a year or so ago that modern economists could get their degrees without so much as taking a single accounting course. Combine that with the fact that most economists have never been business owners and economists are exposed as overly abstract, inexperienced in micro-economic realities and basically ignorant of the realities and effects of the conventions of cost accounting. Even now, despite my communicating the importance of digging into the 3 and 4 dimensional realities of cost accounting Keen is still splashing around on the surface apparencies of Debits and Credits only. I admire Keen a great deal for his iconoclastic abilities despite the mountain of hypnotic orthodoxy that is DSGE, but until he factors the dynamic nature of cost accounting realities and does the calculus on their relationship….his analysis is still orthodox and reactionary…..and thus incomplete.
Another thing Keen talks about is “the credit accelerator”. He attributes it to the tendency toward disequilibrium of the economy. This is true of course, but what he misses is the deeper fact of the cost inflationary nature of the productive process for EVERY enterprise in the economy enforced by cost accounting’s convention that “all costs must go into price.” As labor costs, i.e. individual incomes are only a subset of total costs, doing the calculus…the rate of flow of total costs will always exceed the rate of flow of total individual incomes.” This chronic and continual scarcity of individual incomes is what makes borrowing by businesses a necessity…in order to create the additional individual incomes to create a macro-economic equilibrium. But as borrowing always incurs additional costs….the problem thus remains unsolved….unless a FREE gift of income is DISTRIBUTED DIRECTLY TO THE INDIVIDUAL…instead of having to go back into the system…which disequilibrates costs/prices and incomes.
Scott Baker: Brazil is next.
Me: Of course it is, and every nation will be pulled into the slo-mo train wreck of an underlying macro-economic scarcity of incomes inherent in the economy/productive system itself. Progressives and conservatives will fight on and on over the mistaken/partial and hence non-solutions of austerity or governmental stimulus. No matter that a Distributive monetary paradigm of Gifting embodied in the twin equilibrating policies of a dividend and retail discount would enable the accomplishment of the valid economic viewpoints in their opposing agendas. Addiction to orthodoxy and obsessive concern with power…even at the expense of their own constituencies blocks actual resolution of the crisis. Take the truths and workabilities of both perspectives and you have the perfect policy integrations that is the theory of Social Credit.
Adrian Kuzminski: There is no “perfect policy.” I think this kind of dogmatic language about Social Credit harms its credibility.
Me: It was “perfect policy integrations” actually, and seeings how an actual integration must be of truths and workabilities/applicabilities only, in that sense it needs to be very precise. So lets please be precise about understanding exactly what was being said, especially if one is going to use pejorative buzz words like “dogmatic”.
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Regarding an article written by Yanis Varoufakis: The article is an excellent expose of EU/ECB/Financial tyranny….and yet still is unconscious of the conventions of cost accounting and monopoly paradigm of Debt ONLY which require balancing for an actual solution to our economic and monetary problems. Drive a stake through the demonic heart of the dominating business model of Finance by balancing its monopoly paradigm and freeing consumers, i.e. everyone with policies specifically designed to effect their freedom in a monetary economy.
Transformation first! Rational and ethical regulation…right along with it!
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Regarding Basic Incomes: Distinguishing between the current one and actual alternatives is always important, and explaining how that current system is actually enslaving is most important because it demands/commands action. If costs and hence prices dynamically, i.e. continually and macro-economically, i.e. systemically exceed individual incomes with which to liquidate those costs/prices then that meets the criterion of individual enslavement. As usury is but one of many costs which make total costs exceed individual incomes it IS an aspect of the problem (and yes a large aspect of it) but not the entirety OF, or the complete solution TO the problem. Basic incomes schemes are definitely on the right track. Some have mistaken ideas about the correct financing necessary to actually make them work (re-distributive taxation for instance) and most neglect/omit the macro-economic Discount mechanism of Social Credit which would eliminate inflation and actually enable costs and prices to go down with increased innovation…and in so implementing would prevent regressive forces from coming back and harping about the inflation “Social Credit and Public Banking was causing”…..you know what I mean?
Social Credit/Wisdomics/Gracenomics/ Gracientialism 