Me:  There’s always a particle of truth in what orthodoxy and/or TPTB say, and when the the EU disintegrates something will have to replace the mess that results. That of course is a decentralized collection of self sufficient nations whose economies are monetarily stable do to the fact that a universal dividend has corrected the long standing scarcity of aggregate demand in ratio to costs/prices and a retail discount to prices has turned the vector of their economies toward price deflation instead of inflation and hence they have thrown off the tyranny of the business model of Finance and embraced the freedom/free flowingness of the concept of Grace as in monetary Gifting.

Crys,

Well yeah, you’re way ahead of most here conceptually, …and didn’t you commit the unforgivable sin of not only responding to me, but actually acknowledging that Social Credit might be the way we’ll have to go?

Crysangle:  We have forms of social credit already in most societies.

Have to? That implies lack of choice, not too far off what is going on now either.

Sure you are not rooting for an extension of the status quo?

Ration books were necessary once too….

Me:  We have SOCIALIST/RE-Distributive forms of non-Social Credit….which does not actually solve the problem. As I won the debate (by default actually because no one can present any evidence to rebut) a few years back on this forum about whether or not Social Credit was socialism….which it is not…I can speak authoritatively. Social Credit is a DISTRIBUTIVE NOT A RE-distributive paradigm which fits seamlessly within profit making economic systems.

And yes we have to…if we are actually going to resolve the ACTUAL AND DEEPEST problem with modern technologically advanced economies. The facts are the facts and the truth is the truth.

In the first place Douglas never claimed that interest was the problem with the economy, so you’re off to a bad start with that erroneous conclusion. Secondly you show a complete unconsciousness of the costing/pricing system that is necessarily practiced by every enterprise and whose cost accounting conventions are the flaw that hold the entire economy down. This is typical of theorists, the vast majority of which have never been businessmen with a “hands on” enough approach to be aware of its importance. Thirdly ADDITIONAL FLOWS of costs over and above the costs of finance like depreciation make the the economy inherently cost inflationary, and depreciation allowances for business are not eliminations or forgiveness of such costs and so are merely “stays of execution” of such; and if a business does not charge such costs continuously in their prices they are actually zombies unless they are wildly successful and/or conglomerating in a usually fruitless attempt to avoid bankruptcy. This is also why 80-90% of business start ups fail within a few years. Fourthly, even if one doesn’t care to be an accurate accountant and does not believe the above, the enormously disruptive effects of innovation and artificial intelligence are going to destroy jobs and so erode aggregate demand so badly in the next 10-15 years that the policies of Social Credit/Wisdomics/Gracenomics….are the only rational course for people who no longer want to be dominated by Finance, and so are the only ethical course anyway.

wisdomicsblog.com

The fact that religion is everywhere that humans exist should tell us what? That the religious experience is inherent to humans and is real. It doesn’t make it pre-scientifically real, nor does it make it scientifically real; it makes it integratively real.

The whole truth is truth, and until one integrates the mindsets of both science and religion their spirituality will be reactionary and to one degree or another incomplete and untrue. 

This truth holds true in whatever mental discipline/activity of man it is applied to like for instance politics.

Integration is Wisdom, and the pinnacle of Wisdom is Grace-graciousness.

In other words a scarcity of total individual incomes in ratio to total costs, and because all costs must go into price, also in ratio to total prices that must be liquidated if the economy is approximate equilibrium, the holy grail of economic theory.

Now an equilibrium is actually not an ideal or maintainable state in the temporal universe, so what is actually required for a truly free flowing economy is what I refer to as “the higher economic disequilibrium” where people have a satisfactory virtual middle class level of income due to a universal dividend and a proactive policy of pronounced price deflation (30-40% and up) that continually lowers the need for finance by both the individual and businesses. These dividend and discount policies interpenetrate, bracket and encompass the economy and are actually the component parts, the very definition of balance and equilibrium and the latter  (Retail Discount) is strategically placed  for maximum and final effect.  They also pinpoint policy on the above ratio which, again, is the economy’s deepest problem, and finally are reflectively a dualism and ratio themselves.

Sure he’s an idiot in many ways, but can he awaken to the inevitability of the robotic economic evolution and so take us in the only viable economic future which is the leisure state? To me the constitution will stop any fascist tendencies by the republican party, so I could give a damn about who is the next president so long as they got the monetary system right so that there is an actual future that ends the rule of Finance. De-throne, de-tooth and make Finance take its smaller and proper place in the community of business models and all manner of the nation’s and the world’s problems become imminently more resolvable and probably no-brainers. It’s the keystone issue we all face.

As I have said before ideas are what are powerful. And new paradigms are the most powerful ideas. What if Trump or Hillary were to change the paradigm of full time employment from 40 hours a week to 15-20 hrs. Just declare it. Make it optional for those who truly love their jobs and/or make such a good income that they wouldn’t want to work less, but let the rest of the population be free to decide to embrace that new idea. Part time work is actually the trend anyway. This way the unemployment rate would immediately be cut almost in half thereby throwing a bone to the die hards obsessed with work and employment while also giving most of the populace a base of structure within which they could better adjust to the leisure state. But the real kicker is the realization could be made by all that no matter whether we had the current number of hours worked by fewer and fewer people or the same number of hours in a new definition of full employment….there simply isn’t enough income being produced….to make the economy function….which makes the idea of a direct supplement to people’s incomes, especially as jobs ever more disruptively disappear, the obvious solution.

If Trump or Hillary want to become enshrined as one of the most future oriented, caring, wise and best presidents we’ve ever had…all they need to do is wake up, declare a new idea and follow the inevitable trends.

And if things are not the optimal, ethical and workable it isn’t Wisdom, and it isn’t an actual integration which is the required process for Wisdom itself.

Mention how fractal pattern of Star of David (an integrated Duality that is simultaneously a Trinity, i.e. two equilateral triangles within a circle, i.e. a unitary whole )….is perfectly described by the Cosmic Code

How the policies of Wisdomics/Gracenomics fit seamlessly and ethically within the code and are also valid regarding the economy and money system.

Steven:  This article sets the US drive for global hegemony in its proper context.  Couple it with Hudson’s Why the U.S. has Launched a New Financial World War — And How the the Rest of the World Will Fight Back and it becomes clear why simply printing more money is not the answer – even if it is used to fund a universal basic income / social credit for the West’s fair-skinned and increasingly “useless eater” (thanks to its money-lending class) population.

Me:  As I’ve said on here several times I’ve always liked Michael Hudson, but he hasn’t comprehended the elegant encompassing aspects of Social Credit’s DUAL policies any more than any other economist whose mind is still captured by the current paradigm.

The Discount mechanism of Social Credit is what really makes Social Credit what is required…because it can be used to revive and direct money to the traditionally productive part of the economy and to downsize the necessity of finance at the same time, and Wisdomics/Gracenomics in fully recognizing the digital nature of the money system and the strategic placement of that policy at the exact point where the economic process ends, extends the discount mechanism to make the economy trend continually toward price deflation….and yet does so seamlessly within a profit making system that frees both business and the individual from dominance and enslavement by finance. In other words if the dividend enables one to live relatively comfortably and the discount also increases one’s purchasing power by say 30-40%…why hell, with a little forbearance you may not even have to finance a car or home, or if you’re really impatient at least you’ll be able to afford a lot shorter term for that financing. And the productive part of the economy can run smoothly on all cylinders in perpetuity because there’s no longer any scarcity of demand due to the dividend, plus you get your full best competitive price even despite the discount…because your discounts are fully rebated back to you. It’s win-win for everyone…except finance whose market is continually being downsized by these policies and by the innovation the value of which finance has been usurping for the last couple of centuries.

Monetary Grace as in Gifting….it’s the new economic and monetary paradigm.

Steven:  It is way past time for a little ‘tell it like it is’ truth telling.  Perhaps the Swiss would like the rest of the world to follow the American example of employing workers made redundant by automation to be employed in the armed services industry, making and learning how to use the latest killing technology to threaten their neighbors and / or the rest of the world?

Call it what you will – Social Credit, Universal Basic Income or ‘the dole’; it is that or extinction.

Me:  Yes, it’s monetary Grace integrated with whatever diminishing employment remains (including diminishing armed services employment as well in a nation that is conscious and ethical) …..or a high likelihood of mass death and environmental poisoning. All one has to do is realize how many positive, constructive and personally rewarding purposes there are….besides and including work for pay.

Why is it that we don’t understand this? It’s mostly because we are so mentally dulled by orthodoxy, habit and distraction that our consciousness is debauched. If we came into present time fully and experienced the intensely focused psychological state known as Grace we’d recognize the wonderful gift life/consciousness actually is….and how that experience so completely is paralleled by the combined policies of Social Credit/Wisdomics/Gracenomics. The naturalness, reflectivities and logicality of it exist and are replete.

JD:  Another reason the Swiss rejected it is it’s the first time through. Also the following reason:

From http://commondreams.org/views/2016/06/06/universal-basic-income-why-it-not-crazy-and-not-going-away

About half the remaining traditional full-time jobs in advanced economies will be eliminated by automation in the next 10-20 years, so this is an idea whose time has come. Then why did the Swiss reject it by a 4-to-1 majority? Mainly because their deal with the European Union means that they have relatively open borders.

Luzi Stamm, a member of parliament for the right-wing Swiss People’s Party, liked the idea in principal but opposed it in practice: “Theoretically, if Switzerland were an island, the answer is yes,” he told the BBC. “But with open borders, it’s a total impossibility…If you offered every individual [living here] a Swiss amount of money, you would have billions of people who would try to move into Switzerland.”

Me: JD,

Yes, and of course there is a particle of truth in the Trumpism or any other variety of right wing xenophobic “thinking”, that is, having reasonable control of national borders is simply a part of intelligent governance..sans the xenophobia. Again, the correct path is an ACTUAL integration of philosophy, policy and ethics as I have defined it here numerous times.

JD:  The elite is disintegrating from within as they always do

Go PB and UBI, and local resilience initiatives.

Me:  I’ll second that JD. And don’t forget that the first rule of marketing is showing someone that they need a new idea/thing…and how it can positively benefit them. That is why I believe a thrust toward awakening the small to medium sized business and the general populace to their natural self interested alliance for Banking in the public interest and sovereignly controlled and the dual policies of Social Credit/Wisdomics/Gracenomics is the way forward for the political battle that must ultimately be fought.

Reach + and Withdraw –  = Actions of Consciousness

Debt + and Repayment –   = Debt Based Money System

Systemically Scarce Income – and Costless Monetary Gifting +  = Universal Dividend

More Costs and So Prices as a Flow + in Ratio to Individual Incomes as a Flow – and a Deflationary Price Discount at Retail Sale – That is Rebated Back to Merchants So They Can Be Whole on Their Margins and Overheads +  = Retail Discount Policy

Being fully in present Time according to sages since time immemorial is an intensely wonderful experience, unless of course you’re suffering from post traumatic stress disorder and you’re every present moment is one that is extremely unpleasant….and you are stuck in it.  The truth is that the economy is inherently stuck in a moment to moment very stressful state known as a scarcity of total individual incomes in ratio to total costs and so prices. That means that if we were to totally force all economic activity into present time that a very large percent of the population and the same percentage of businesses would immediately know the reality that they didn’t have any income or at least a severe shortage of same….and that the bills were due… now.

Now most economists do not adequately confront this looming fact and Banks and financiers will probably oppose this truth because it will end their monopoly on credit creation, but as innovation and artificial intelligence increasingly and disruptively creates that reality and the natural tendency for businesses in profit making systems to cut labor costs as a result of those forces ….it will be necessary to awaken both individuals and  businesses to the natural alliance they have regarding the consumer having enough spendable income to survive, thrive, enable businesses to be profitable and the entire economic system to be functional.

And that is why hastening innovation and artificial intelligence, cutting costs and showing the businessman and the general populace that a supplement to consumer’s incomes are necessary …..are the three things that need to be encouraged….so that when the economic singularity occurs….we aren’t surprised by it like we were by the 2008 unpleasantness, and we deal with it rationally and ethically for everyone.