JR:  Carl, this could happen only if the State Bank was established as a central bank, issuing reserves rather than needing them to function.  I do not believe this is allowable under your constitution  and legislation.

Let’s be clear on this.  Commercial banks (which present State banks are) do not need reserves to lend.  But they do need them to follow deposits of their money into competing banks.  If they outstripped other banks in their activity, they would quickly lose all their reserves and be wiped out.

If you doubt this, I could forward you a paper I have done on bank functions.  It has been checked by the brilliant convener of Economic Reform Australia.

Me:  As I said before the Bank of North Dakota might be able to simply issue credit as a gift along with any money they distribute as debt via loans. The truth is, as Steve Keen has shown that all Banks issue credit FIRST….and look for reserves later…and if part of the credit they issue is simply a gift….there isn’t any counter party anyway…so why would it present a reserves problem???

And if the FED or the Banks want to fight it out with us…take it to court where their obvious selfish self interests can be broadcast as diametrically opposed to the interests of both business entities and the individual. Come to think of it, it’s probably an excellent way to get publicity for public banking, monetary Gifting as the new paradigm, the dual and necessarily balancing nature of dividend and discount policies and the wisdom of the concept of subsidiarity/states rights. Pfffh! It’s a great way to awaken the
vocal Trumpist right to REAL monetary and economic reforms.

wisdomicsblog.com

JR:  Steve, I have explained why this would present a problem.

The bank could be taken over by others.

Yes, it could get reserves from, the Fed., thus going into debt to it.  Do you really think an orthodox Fed., under the control of the major banks, would continue to fund this process?

Me:  Do you understand that the credit component of a gift does not require additional reserves….because the gifted amount actually serves as reserves/fulfills the function of reserves itself and that there is no counter party to the one way nature of a gift?

I don’t care if someone tries to take over the bank, or the FED self interestedly refuses to back such monetary policy, as I said that would be an excellent opportunity for a states rights/monetary policy educational law suit.

Before the Federal Reserve Act there was an era known as “Free Banking” where private Banks simply issued money to borrowers. Some on the right still think this is what we should return to, but as Steven Zarlenga correctly showed in his book the Free banking period was the most unstable and corrupt era of our Banking history and was a major impetus, justification and enabling of the Federal Reserve Act.

What I’m saying is we had that historical precedent, and that if State and even private Banks were able to do such again, BUT WERE ALSO REQUIRED TO DISTRIBUTE A DIVIDEND AND THEY ALSO (OR PERHAPS A FEDERAL MONETARY AUTHORITY) PRONOUNCED AND DISTRIBUTED THE REBATED DEFLATIONARY DISCOUNT PERCENTAGE….there wouldn’t be any instability, but instead a great stabilization.

So put that down, right next to my Project Wisdom and Grace, as another suggestion by me to find a way to advertise, publicize, market and raise consciousness about integrative monetary and economic policies.

Kevin:  An explanation of how low cost high value distributed loans will evolve the financial system without major disruption.

Me:  Financial cost cutting is fine, but if the rest of the economy other than Finance inherently, that is naturally, produces a greater flow of costs than it simultaneously creates a flow of individual incomes….the system will remain unstable.

Kevin:  Steve,

Me:  Kevin,

(caps only for emphasis)

I never said YOU were advocating increasing costs. I said that you were cutting FINANCIAL costs, which is fine, but if costs still exceed individual incomes as a flow IN THE ENTIRETY OF THE REST OF THE ECONOMY OTHER THAN FINANCE AND WE DON’T ACCURATELY ACCOUNT/COMPENSATE FOR THEM….we’ve ignored, missed and left unresolved a more subtle and deeper problem. And even if one doesn’t want to believe that this lack of accounting is the problem, futurists predict that artificial intelligence will eliminate nearly 40% of our present jobs making the problem identified by Social Credit almost 100 years ago true by another means….and its policies necessary….unless we want to become some absurd socialist work state where you have to chew gum for 8 hours a day in order to “make a living”….rather than accept our freedom and leisure and find some satisfactory SELF DETERMINED activities to enrich our lives because the policies of Social Credit are intelligent and gracious enough to save us from such idiotic homo economicus non-thinking.

Kevin:  We both have no idea what will happen when we cut the costs of the financial system. Your statements may or may not be true.  We will only know what happens when we do it.

Me:  Well, until we find some way to eliminate the effects of wear and obsolescence by the physical universe and the force of competition, which my best guess is never, the necessity for the dual policies of
Social Credit/Wisdomics/Gracenomics will remain and become ever more urgent as capital in the form of buildings and other productive means continues to grow.

*******************************************

The derivatives insanity simply must be unwound in some civil and sane fashion which means the Banks cannot be allowed to either steal the public’s savings or disrupt and/or collapse the entire system. Whoever is president must have the balls or the chutzpah to stand up to such naked domination by Finance.

wisdomicsblog.com

“I think we might be seeing the stage set for a massive takedown of the German bankster clan by the NY and London families”

That seems very plausible to me, and it rhymes with what occurred after WW I and that largely was the ultimate reactionary cause of WW II (an anti-semitic backlash by Germans) so it also rhymes with what is occurring all over Europe now.

We must awaken whomever is president/prime minister to the historical reflectivity and dangers of the situation and get a jubilee, Public Banking and encompassing monetary and economic policies to relieve the pressure, permanently stabilize the economy and back away from what could be a civilizational disaster.

This fits my impression quite well. So much of our lives are dictated by our particular psychological profile and the level of stress in the moment and also long term. The financial elite are afflicted with both an authoritarian, austere psychological profile and high levels of stress plus most of them also operate under the influence of false economic orthodoxies. Together these factors probably means that even though there may be a relative few individuals who are consciously aware of matters and working only for their individual interests, there probably isn’t some wide spread cabal consciously manipulating things behind the scene. This doesn’t mean that the result is very much as if there were a wide spread cabal, in fact, as changing one’s mind is both the easiest and the most difficult thing to do, the combined general psychological profile/zeitgeist/paradigm/false orthodoxies in effect are probably even more of a hindrance to change than if the general cabal was a confirmed actuality.

IMO Trump is undoubtedly still under the influence of false conservative economic orthodoxy, although he is aware of MMT which shows that he is at least aware of that element of an abundant mindest of economic and money theory. Hilary as we know is not going to do anything of progressive consequence on money reform until she jettisons her Goldman Sachs et all backers. So we’re probably going to have to integrate the various strands of economic and monetary reform in as intelligent and marketable fashion as possible.

Understanding what an actual integration is, is key because an actual integration requires focused understanding of all relevant factors, the effects of an actual integration are true progress and a deep enough integration is an actual paradigm change.

Carl:  I had asked before, but only with a few responses. If this good-faith prima facie cost-benefit amount of a million/household benefits is correct, we should use it. This was part of a paper I wrote for the 2,000 person international conference at the Claremont Colleges last year (Ellen was a key commentator to the whole conference, and I use video from her in the article). The review committee found no error in the paper, as has nobody else in the years I’ve been writing articles, along with the AP Econ teachers (those who care to look).

It’s a great slogan for PB, the Green Party, whomever: $1,000,000 for your family with public banking and monetary reform!

Me:  Carl,

I think your assessment of the idle cash “sitting out there” is undoubtedly accurate if not still somewhat understated because we really don’t have accurate stats on tax haven amounts and other hidden financial assets. Having said that (and I’m sure you are aware of this) knowing what is out there, determining how much of it is actually ill gotten and then actually recovering it is an uncertain and probably a longish process. In no way is that a discouragement to doing so especially with worthlessly pooled assets like the CAFR’s and other of such assets. What I am suggesting we do in the interim is try to recover the low hanging fruit and simultaneously push the Distributive money paradigm in order to break up the debt and loan ONLY paradigm enforced by the private Banks.

One thing I do want to say is that the idea that we will not have price inflation so long as money does not exceed production is, I’m sorry, liberal false orthodoxy. The myriad businesses out there that see a large and/or steady increase in individual demand coming WILL inflate their prices and keep on doing so until an erosion of one degree or another results….because who and what is there to stop them from doing so???? And the regressive elements and old paradigm austerity mentality will howl long and loud about it and try to reverse the changes that are necessary for individual economic freedom and systemic free flowingness. So why leave that inevitability open is what I am saying, because indeed the only way to prevent such a thing from happening is the oft forgotten second Social Credit/Wisdomics/Gracenomics macro-economic policy of a rebated back to merchants, deflationary discount to consumers at retail sale. Please consider this.

Carl:  Hi Steve,
My standing position:

1. Have the breakthrough in public “Emperor’s New Clothes” recognition that we have an Orwellian system: debt is called “money” and “good” for us, the “monetary” system is adding negative numbers (debt) forever to create unpayable and increasing aggregate debt, and that this is obvious criminal fraud from those with legal fiduciary responsibility to be transparently honest with the people about our money. That’s to keep the breakthrough points to three.

2. Do what academics, including economics, promises: have all data on the table in good-faith effort. Key numbers will be real-world consideration for the public, politics, and economics courses.

3. With transparent data, take steps that seem best in conservative gradual ways, all the while taking more data to revise/upgrade our understanding. We then repeat steps 2 and 3.

So! All great ideas such as PB, monetary reform, Gracenomics, should be on our table of facts.

Thank you for your work and care to present ideas worthy of public consideration 🙂

Me:  You’re welcome! And those are fine tactics. Just please do remember that when the awakening does occur and we get our chance to craft policy that the trinity-unity Hegelian dialectic is thesis, antithesis and an ethical synthesis/integration of only truths, workabilities and applicabilities…not thesis, antithesis and an unworkable, inapplicable and unethical mish mash compromise/poison pill conglomeration that fails to evolve, and so leaves the door open for Finance’s paradigm of debt and loan ONLY to exploit and manipulate another day.

Integration is the truth purifying process of Wisdom, not idiot compromise, and the pinnacle concept of Wisdom is the trinity-unity concept of Grace-Flow.

Carl,

As one of the aspects of the philosophical concept of Grace is abundance and your proposal is abundant it reflects and aligns with my thinking, and would fit well into the following essay/article…perhaps if the $1 million per household was empirically proven strong enough it could be utilized as a trust from which a middle class level dividend could be drawn on yearly and continuously.

Grace as in abundance is the conscious philosophical concept that runs through, and needs to be more consciously integrated and consolidated within the various economic and monetary reform movements. For instance:

What is “a modern debt jubilee”? (Steve Keen)

It’s Grace as in forgiveness of Debt.

What is Banking in the public interest?  (Ellen Brown)

It is the  financial structural equivalent of the omni-presence of God/Self Awareness/Consciousness/psychological state of Grace/Flow. It is the financial systemic expression of Jon Kabat-Zinn’s Book title Wherever You Go, There You Are when describing consciousness. Also, as the psychological state of Grace/Flow is the complete integration of Space, Time and Self Awareness, so the keystone business model of Banking/Finance that was truly in the individual’s interests is the integration of a caring, supportive and gracious attitude toward the individual and individual commercial interests as opposed to the dominating and manipulative force it has become.

What is Sovereign Control of the Money System?  (Positive Money and MMT)

It is recognition that hierarchy is necessary with forces as powerful as money, and if they are aware enough, that such hierarchy is, of necessity, a sovereignty that is utterly ethical, undoubtedly in ethical control, unbiased, objective and completely democratic in its graciously gifting distributions to the individual and commercial interests and so is a true Sovereign Grace as in the old expression “Your Sovereign Grace”.

What is true freedom for the individual and graceful and continuous free flowingness for the economic system that is also aligned with our awareness of the Laws of Thermo-dynamics?      (Wisdomics/Gracenomics)

In a money and debt based system, secure, continuous and satisfactorily adequate purchasing power is freedom. A universal dividend to every adult 18 years of age and older that itself approaches a middle class level of income is the gracious as in gifting expression of that freedom for the individual.

In a modern technologically advanced capital intensive profit making economic system that is in an inherently disequilibrated state due to the ever increasing costs of depreciation of that ever increasing capital, and that is also now faced with rapid erosion of aggregate individual purchasing power due to innovation and artificial intelligence, a means of eliminating that inherent cost inflation so as to enable not just a momentary equilibrium, but a continuous and free flowing one….is necessary.

As a true equilibrium and/or flow is thermo-dynamically impossible in the temporal world we live in without an outside force and/or policy to enable and maintain it, and as a momentary enablement is not a flow and certainly also isn’t the maintenance of one, a policy of cost reduction at the end of the economic process at retail sale where all costs for any item or service is terminally summed and hence afterward no economic agent can be harmed because production has become consumption…..must be implemented.

Furthermore, in order for the system to be continuously free flowing despite the laws of thermo-dynamics, a significantly price deflationary reduction in retail price must be the case….and this is accomplished by reciprocal Grace as in Gifting by the merchant to the consumer…and then by the monetary authority back to the merchant for all of his discounts so that he can be whole on his margins of profit and overhead payments.

These policies are the concept of Grace expressed in the organic affairs of the economic and monetary systems, and the integrated completion of the expressions of the other aspects of Grace shown in the other reform movements above.

Even though haltingly and still largely unconsciously the philosophical concept of Grace, in everyone of its relevant aspects, is the new
Copernican evolutionary paradigm that a fragmented economics requires for its transition from the mindsets of austerity and scarcity to freedom, free flowingness and abundance.

wisdomicsblog.com

************************************************

Carl,

I think your assessment of the idle cash “sitting out there” is undoubtedly accurate if not still somewhat understated because we really don’t have accurate stats on tax haven amounts and other hidden financial assets. Having said that (and I’m sure you are aware of this) knowing what is out there, determining how much of it is actually ill gotten and then actually recovering it is an uncertain and probably a longish process. In no way is that a discouragement to doing so especially with worthlessly pooled assets like the CAFR’s and other of such assets. What I am suggesting we do in the interim is try to recover the low hanging fruit and simultaneously push the Distributive money paradigm in order to break up the debt and loan ONLY paradigm enforced by the private Banks.

One thing I do want to say is that the idea that we will not have price inflation so long as money does not exceed production is, I’m sorry, liberal false orthodoxy. The myriad businesses out there that see a large and/or steady increase in individual demand coming WILL inflate their prices and keep on doing so until an erosion of one degree or another results….because who and what is there to stop them from doing so???? And the regressive elements and old paradigm austerity mentality will howl long and loud about it and try to reverse the changes that are necessary for individual economic freedom and systemic free flowingness. So why leave that inevitability open is what I am saying, because indeed the only way to prevent such a thing from happening is the oft forgotten second Social Credit/Wisdomics/Gracenomics macro-economic policy of a rebated back to merchants, deflationary discount to consumers at retail sale. Please consider this.

Trinity-Unity as a concept and as a reality is all over nature, logic, good science and scientific breakthrough, psycho-therapy and self awareness and consciousness itself.

A tree is the trunk, the branches and the roots from which they sprung.

A leaf is its two symmetrical sides and the stem from which both sides sprang.

The Hegelian Dialectic is thesis, antithesis and synthesis.

Good non-dogmatic science is the objective duality of the scientific method and the open minded strength and confidence to look at any new and relevant data.

Scientific breakthroughs are generally characterized by the integration of the duality of the scientific method and an aspect of Grace-Consciousness, like for instance imagination.

All effective psycho-therapy is the consciousness of the patient directed to past experiences and the running off of any unhappy and unintegrated effort, emotion and decisions made during and about such experiences

All temporal experience is consciousness (Trinity-Unity) thinking a thought (1) and then acting on it (2)….or deciding not to act.

Duality is also a reality, but failure to perceive, honor and apply Trinity-Unity is the beginning of all reactionary Dualism, obsessive conflict and decline.

Example of a balance with fulcrum, leaf, tree, Hegelian Dialectic, definition of experience of Grace, party politics etc. etc.

Wisdomics/Gracenomics would enable the elimination of much of income taxes, virtually all transfer taxes for unemployment insurance and welfare and eventually the phase out of Social Security taxes as well. It would also eliminate or severely reduce the size of these bureaucracies.  Wisdomics/Gracenomics would insure a steady and prosperous supply of income directly to the individual thus radically stabilizing the economy in perpetuity. It would also change the entire vector of the economy from inflationary to deflationary while still retaining profit making systems, and not only retaining the viability of free enterprise, but the increased likelihood of profit by same.

Wisdomics/Gracenomics will not only increase economic democracy, with its universal dividend and price deflationary retail discount policies it will complete it. The coercive threat of unemployment and monetary destitution will be forever ended, and the “reserve army of the unemployed” will no longer enable capital to dominate labor. And neither will labor need to become recalcitrant by making it nearly impossible to fire uncooperative or incompetent employees, but rather concentrate on negotiating a fair distribution of employer profits, improving working conditions and guarding against summary firings.

Wisdomics/Gracenomics will stop the present near necessity to become an oligopolistic corporation with global reach in order to long survive, and make enterprises of all sizes viable if they stay true to the bedrock considerations of efficiency, innovation and service to the consumer. Thus the concept of subsidiarity will be enabled and while “bigness” will still be a possibility for corporations it will not be an imperative for survival.

Wisdomics/Gracenomics will retain Limited Liability for corporations as frivolous and unjustified suits against them will always be a possibility in an imperfect and not thoroughly ethical world. It will however greatly modify corporate “citizenhood” and the coercive power to corrupt government authorities and to direct and control governmental regulation.  Much of this will be the result of the above dividend and discount policies, but again, further firm and clear punishments for the avoiding or violating of those policies or attempting to bribe, threaten or influence government by other unethical methods will be strictly enforced. Corporations and the legal profession will bow to the primary overriding paradigm and zeitgeist of Grace.

Thus will the above thoroughly integrate the best and only the applicable, workable and ethical aspects of the apparently opposing philosophies of liberalism and conservatism.

Grace as in abundance is the conscious philosophical concept that runs through, and needs to be more consciously integrated and consolidated within the various economic and monetary reform movements. For instance:

What is “a modern debt jubilee”? (Steve Keen)

It’s Grace as in forgiveness of Debt.

What is Banking in the public interest?  (Ellen Brown)

It is the  financial structural equivalent of the omni-presence of God/Self Awareness/Consciousness/Grace. It is the systemic expression of Jon Kabat-Zinn’s Book title Wherever You Go, There You Are when describing consciousness. Also, as Grace is the complete integration of Space, Time and Self Awareness, so the keystone business model of Banking/Finance that was truly in the individual’s interests is the integration of a caring, supportive and gracious attitude toward the individual and individual commercial interests as opposed to the dominating and manipulative force it has become.

What is Sovereign Control of the Money System?  (Positive Money and MMT)

It is recognition that hierarchy is necessary with forces as powerful as money, and if they are aware enough, that such hierarchy is, of necessity, a sovereignty that is utterly ethical, undoubtedly in ethical control, unbiased, objective and completely democratic in its graciously gifting distributions to the individual and commercial interests and so is a true Sovereign Grace as in “Your Sovereign Grace”.

What is true freedom for the individual and graceful and continuous free flowingness for the economic system that is also aligned with our awareness of the Laws of Thermo-dynamics?      (Wisdomics/Gracenomics)

In a money and debt based system, secure, continuous and satisfactorily adequate purchasing power is freedom. A universal dividend to every adult 18 years of age and older that itself approaches a middle class level of income is the gracious as in gifting expression of that freedom for the individual.

In a modern technologically advanced capital intensive profit making economic system that is in an inherently disequilibrated state due to the ever increasing costs of depreciation of that ever increasing capital, and that is also now faced with rapid erosion of aggregate individual purchasing power due to innovation and artificial intelligence, a means of eliminating that inherent cost inflation so as to enable not just a momentary equilibrium, but a continuous and free flowing one….is necessary.

As a true equilibrium and/or flow is thermo-dynamically impossible in the temporal world we live in without an outside force and/or policy to enable and maintain it, and as a momentary enablement is not a flow and certainly also isn’t the maintenance of one, a policy of cost reduction at the end of the economic process at retail sale where all costs for any item or service is terminally summed and hence afterward no economic agent can be harmed because production has become consumption…..must be implemented. Furthermore, in order for the system to be continuously free flowing despite the laws of thermo-dynamics, a significantly price deflationary reduction in retail price must be the case….and this is accomplished by reciprocal Grace as in Gifting by the merchant to the consumer…and then by the monetary authority back to the merchant for all of his discounts so that he can be whole on his margins of profit and overhead payments.

These policies are the concept of Grace expressed in the organic affairs of the economic and monetary systems, and the integrated completion of the expressions of the other aspects of Grace shown in the other reform movements above.

Yeah John, except I already mentioned that and suggested that the bank of North Dakota just create the money ex nihilo for the dividend and discount as monetary grace/monetary gifting thereby eliminating the need for a central bank. It could even create it as debt, distribute it as a dividend and discount rebates…..and then never require it to be paid back, thus making it a gift.

Come on John, I know you have a little bit of a hyper critical streak in you, have a reactionary caution about presenting Social Credit “realistically” born of being ridiculed by idiot self seeking pols in NZ and also consequently detest my abundant dividend and discount schemes…..but if you actually contemplated the concept of Grace you would realize that Grace whether it be from God or a national credit office or a state bank is by definition abundant….not cautious, scimpy or even only enough to momentarily attain an equilibrium….and then of course immediately fall back into disequilibrium because the temporal universe abhors a stasis or a vacuum. Contemplate the concept of Grace…..and you can’t go wrong.

******************************************

Regarding Janet Yellen mentioning  the possible use of “helicopter money”

It’s interesting that Yellen would even mention this, but the obsessive caution and emphasis on it only being needed in emergency situations (as if the longest economic slump since the great depression was not critical enough)
is really just a combination of ignorance of alternatives and a not very well disguised self interest on the hand maiden of the private banks, the FED.

Forget about A + B, the internal logics of profit making systems, innovation and AI are all that of efficiency. Profit, efficiency of costs so as to better profit, innovation, efficiency of human effort and AI efficiency of human input at all. So which of these are we going to eliminate in order to avoid the mass erosion of aggregate individual incomes and hence the necessity of the Social Credit policy prescriptions??? None of them is the short and obvious answer, and in fact the idea that we ought to eliminate any of them is anti-freedom as technology has for centuries been attempting to lift the so called “curse of Adam” that “only by the sweat of thy brow shall ye eat your bread.”

The financial elite and their bought and paid for pols need to wake up and die right.

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Outrageousness and loud and forthright preaching has been exposed as an effective strategy for political change by Donald Trump, especially in times of crisis and/or economic hard times. Caution and a tepid message of change never won an election or got a necessary policy implemented. Democrats and money reformers should pay attention.

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JR:  “It explains so many things that orthodoxy can’t,….”

Me:  Yes it does. And it describes the deepest problem….not the only problem, but the deepest one. The one whose non-resolution though, like human neuroses, keeps so many other problems in effect. And if it would be resolved a paradigm change would occur that would immediately result in a tremendous upsurge in individual freedom and systemic free flowingness. People unfortunately tend to be afraid of freedom. Two of the best books I ever read were Erich Fromm’s Escape From Freedom and his classic The Art of Loving. Those kinds of books need to be read and re-read many times. Loving, you’ll notice is a verb, and so is love in action, in the midst of and despite what occurs to one in Life and is actually the definition of Grace.
Grace is a state of consciousness which exists. Tap into it, contemplate it, cultivate it, apply it to any and every part of your Life and into the organic affairs and systems of Man. Just brush past the modern abhorench
of religion if you have it and understand that the dynamic non-grasping/non-holding onto/flowing aspect of Grace is its non-dogmatic character that effectively integrates it with the temporal-physical universe of change and process. It’s the universal solvent and best guide for personal development and systemic policy. Even if you have doubts about that, just don’t stand as an obstacle in the road of its inevitable expression. Don’t let the pre-scientific naivetes of Sunday school or your inevitable misunderstandings or non-integrations in Life be a hindrance. Even make fun of the preacher of Grace….just try to do it graciously. You can’t go wrong with Grace.