Me: You’re absolutely right! And why is that? Because even MMTers whose insights are correct and good…are still Ptolemaic economists. In other words they haven’t recognized both the present and the exact new paradigm concept, that applied, will transform the entire system under analysis and wildly benefit every economic agent and advance the system…like every historical paradigm change has done. Thus the best they can do is offer up palliative reforms and stumble around within the confusing conceptual framing of the current monopoly paradigm for the creation and distribution of all new money AKA Debt Only.

Conceptual/paradigmatic analysis is the necessary first step. All other analysis is delusive justification or at best palliative economic epicycles.

PS: Steve, you’ve been pitching your 50% retail rebate for years now. Who else believes this will work? Who believes this is viable, even if it theoretically works, which I doubt?

Me: Its not a mass movement yet thats true, but all you have to do to see its incredible personal and temporal universe reality and benefits to both individual and commercial agents is do what all MMTers and guys like Steve Keen and Michael Hudson agree is how ALL new money is created, namely the double entry bookkeeping operations of equal debits and credits that sum to zero.

So the individual goes and buys $100 worth of groceries but only pays $50 because of the (credit) 50% Discount at retail sale. Then the central bank rebates (debits) the commmercial agent’s sales account for the entirety of their discount on each sale so they are made whole on their entire price. So your purchasing power is doubled, the potential purchasing power available for every enterprise is doubled and chronic erosive inflation is transformed into beneficial price and asset deflation. Look at it. Do the simple accounting and algebra…like a good MMTer and if you can come up with an instance of where one policy did more for every economic agent involved, then I’m all on board with it.

PS: Approximately 50% of US consumer spending is accounted for by the top 10%, and the US economy is primarily driven by consumer spending, which accounts for around 70% of its total economic activity. Should the top 10% also receive this credit?

Me: Yes they will receive a discount, but not 50%. Another of the policies in my book is a sliding scale reduction of the discount based on income where the very wealthy get only a 5% discount. If 100 millionaires complain about getting only a $2.5 million discount on their next purchase of a $50 million yacht, its more a personal problem than an economic or moral one.

By the way, your objection to money flowing uphill is correct and good, but its not THE problem…which is the monopolistic monetary paradigm of DEBT ONLY which the banks have enforced for the entire course of human civilization.

PS: I believe compounded interest debt is the problem which is a major factor in creating wealth and income disparities along with asset and debt bubbles that create recessions and depressions which facilitate the wealthy getting wealthier.

Me: Yes compound interest is a contributive problem and the fact of it being tolerated is indicative of the power and dominance of Finance. The 50% Discount/Rebate at retail sale policy goes a long way toward negating its undemocratic economic effects. Why? Because your monthly mortgage, automobile and big ticket item payment is the retail sale point of finance as well as everyday small item consumptive retail sale. Therefore you get 50% off at both the auto dealership or home builder…and at the bank as well which means you get a $60k EV for $15k and a $500k home for $125k.

The fact is that Finance is a wholly exterior parasite to the actual economic/cost cutting/competitive process because its an always pre-production and post retail sale additional cost…and the 50% Discount/Rebate policy successfully and finally integrates it into the legitimate productive process.

Another policy in my book is to create a back up competitive public banking system that you would be able to get a loan or mortgage at 3% if a private bank would not give you the same rate. With a $1000/mo. universal dividend and the 50% discount/rebate policy virtually everyone would be creditable.

Hell, the 50% Discount/Rebate policy actually would enable Clarence Thomas to receive legitimate monetary gifts instead of corrupting ones. The transformational effects of paradigm changes are truly astounding!

DH: I have not seen any evidence that they reject the common tools that economists in general use to forecast economic conditions. The point of MMT is to see the potential of the economy to serve a wider range of the population as opposed to the 1%

Me: Yes thats what MMTers want, its just that they haven’t recognized the new paradigm concept (Strategic Monetary Gifting) and then where and when to apply that new paradigm (at the point of retail sale with A 50% Discount/Rebate) …BECAUSE EVERYONE PARTICIPATES IN OR IS EFFECTED BY THE PRICE AT RETAIL SALE. Thats a new macro-economic insight. Thank you non-Nobel prize committee for economics.

Its actually an indication of how unconsciously acculturated and indoctrinated economists are about “free”market theoretics and the present monetary paradigm that despite the fact that retail sale goes on hundreds of billions of times per day since forever…they haven’t looked at/figured out that the above policy of accounting operations is basically a new paradigm in a single policy.

JF: Even if one describes it as such, as a game of chicken, they still need to describe what each side is fighting for (in the purported game). One side fights for tax cuts for the rich, who are doing splendidly, while the other side is defending ACA subsidies for those who need it to live.

Putting rhetoric aside, that’s the true situation.

Me: Its all a tragic fight between the deluded (republicans) and the erudite but insufficiently deep analysts (democrats/MMTers) over money. MMT CORRECTLY proves how money is created BUT THEIR ADHERENTS APPARENTLY DO NOT REALIZE THAT PARADIGM CONCEPTS ARE WHAT CREATE AND ENFORCE BOTH MENTAL AND SYSTEMIC TEMPORAL REALITY! IF THEY DID THEY’D REALIZE THAT VIRTUALLY ALL NEW MONEY IS CREATED ONLY, ONLY, ONLY,…AS DEBT. In other words the current monetary paradigm is the MONOPOLISTIC concept of Debt ONLY. Its perfectly analogous to the Roman Catholic church’s pre-enlightenment monopoly paradigm of Salvation Via Roman Catholic Sacraments ONLY. The word ONLY designates it as exclusive and hence monopolistically dominating.

This should enlighten MMTers and democrats to the way to win this argument. How? By saying to republicans: I thought you guys were for free markets and competition, so why are you defending this systemic and conceptual monopoly??? We need a monetary Reformation. The only question is whether MMTers get the above insight and then have the Lutherian balls to push it AND THE INCREDIBLY RESOLVING AND BENEFICIAL EFFECTS OF THE NEW MONETARY PARADIGM OF STRATEGIC MONTARY GIFTING continuously before the minds of the general populace.

PS: The main problem with MMT is that the proponents of MMT do not focus on those who benefit from it, i.e., the top sliver of the population. Only lots of lip service

Me: No, that misses the operant factor which is the current monetary paradigm and simply sets up another dualistic/egoistic fight that does not enable and awaken the masses to the resolution to the problem, i.e. the new applied concept/paradigm.

PS: talk talk talk talk talk talk

Me: Talk, talk, talk, talk…is what is going on now in congress. Lets have some insight, some thirdness greater oneness of a unresolving duality…some WISDOM.